Oh, by the way, Scott, you still have not explained exactly what makes the training for those items common to sport and private pilots different between the two to the point that a sport pilot CFI's instruction on those items is not sufficient.

In the absence of such an explanation, it is you who comes off sounding like he's trying to protect his business, as opposed to Rod's detailed and exhaustive analysis.

Rod's also a well-known, recognized expert in flight training.

I suspect his opinion will sway more folks than yours will, especially if you continue to resort to simplistic sound bites without the same level of detailed analysis to back them up.

Jay
I have written extensively on this topic on this, and several other, forums and letters to the FAA, EAA, AOPA, and NAFI. My position and that of many other respected instructors that agree with me, that we need a higher standard, has been well documented.
I am told by these authorities, that more people are writing to them that supports my position than against. It is only here, on the forums, that a vocal minority is being pro-Sport Instructor being equivalent to a traditional CFI.
The main item is the learning curve a pilot goes through when he goes from Private, to Instrument, to Commercial to CFI. A pilot who goes from Private to “Instructor” is missing out on a ton of personal achievement, experience, and flight training that needs to be passed on to a student. The judgment and ADM abilities one gains in that time period is (for most people) immense.
I was at an FAA Safety meeting tonight (CFI and DPE), and the speaker said “You don’t know…what you don’t know. You need someone who knows, to teach you.”

Sound bites work best...for those who don't know, or don't want to know, all the facts.

Scott

I don’t think the Sport Pilot Instructor being ‘equivalent’ to a CFI is at issue. I thought we were all talking about credit for instruction for a sport pilot ‘upgrading’ to private pilot? I recently talked with a sport pilot who has logged over 275 hours flying time in just two years. He now is considering a Private ticket. Is it fair to him to repeat basic flying skills because his training didn’t count towards a private license or would it be reasonable to assess his skill to date and proceed with night, radio nav and hood training (or any other skills and requirements to pass the Private PTS)?
One note about the difference in training…a private pilot does not have to train in B, C or D airspace but yet is legal to enter such airspace, whereas a sport pilot must receive additional training and endorsement to be legal. Food for thought.
It comes down to the student. We have all seen instructors that can’t teach… some are here only as time builders. Unfortunate, but true. The Sport CFI’s I’ve encountered are here for the student, not the career path to the airlines. These Sport instructors offer quality instruction and pass their passion for flight to the student. I’m sure we can find examples of good and bad instructors at either level. Students will quickly discover which are good and the bad. I don’t think all Sport Pilot instructors are low time with little experience.

Rod said it best of all things written here.

There is this huge concern time and expense is lost when going from Sport to Private Pilot. As said, little is lost. Even so, I've yet to see someone moving forward who did not need a bit of recurrent training to bring back some lost skills.

SP instructors have a definite place. Are there some who don't quite have the experience level maybe they should have? Heck, that can be said of CFI-A or even the new 738 type rating when all they had flown before was a C441. There will always be a need to increase experience and improve skill. I'm sure the best among us such as Rod, Doug and Arlynn will feel the same. We never stop learning and neither do they.

For anyone to dump on another because their experience level is less only diminishes their value as a teacher and inflates apparent ego that gets in the way of being a good teacher. I tell my students to never be afraid to question me. I'm not infallible. Them seeing me correct my my mistakes will reinforce the need to also stay on top and verify their own actions. It's all part of ADM, something I very little of out of many instructors.

If someone comes to me inquiring of SP, I'll ask of their goal. If it's cost and a way to get started, I'm fine with that. If it's a means of cutting corners because they "don't have to do as much" then I'll be very concerned about their motivation as applied to safety. But, if I see any consideration of moving toward private pilot right away, I'll suggest doing so from the start.

I don't really agree with the FAA decision but I understand the logic applied. Either way, that's the rule. Now, we need to live within that rule and help each other out.

By the way, how many instructors seek training beyond what it took to achieve their current level of certificates? Is there a plan to improve their skill beyond what it is now? I plan to move toward aerobatics to make me more proficient in overall aircraft handling in upset attitudes. Just because one holds only a SP instructor certificate, they are not forbidden to acquire instrument skills. They can't teach them but it will certainly improve overall skills and add to their experience level. The CFI-A out there... what more have you done to improve your skill and experience level?

I don't think anyone on this forum has so much they can point fingers. Anyone who does would be due to retire from teaching.

Pardon my rambling,

Ken

Good Day!

I fully support the FAA revising the regulation. The SP CFI should be fully certified to provide PP credit for any pilot wishing to upgrade.