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Debunking false dogmas.

The terror of constant brainwashing indeed spells hopelessness for billions.
A static intellect is when predetermination takes the place of honest inquiry and truth is suppressed. The culprit is misguided religion which leads to fanaticism, barbarism and superstition. This form of credulity is the catalyst of existing adverse and prejudicial conditions that have plagued mankind for nearly 5,000 years.

"When the time of destruction is at hand the intellect becomes perverted." Vridha Chan. 16:17.

Topic of discussion
Can a fool, fool God? - Feb 08, 2002
What Baseball-club owner would pay his worst ball-player the same money as his best? Since he is the owner he can do anything and even through compassion make such a reward. But let's measure the disadvantages of such a measure, his club would go bankrupt because his worst players would never strive to be better while his best players would do less since it makes no sense to be the best. Baseball will become non-competitive and the millions who would be deprived of its entertainment will no longer support it, not to mention the thousands that will be affected by employment. If there were such an owner who lacks such business sense, he would be called a fool, won't he?

 A fool has no value for time or knowledge and so he remains a fool all his life. It certainly requires no effort to be a fool and in the end he/she repents for being a fool and gains salvation. On the other hand, a wise man values his time and works diligently and strenuously daily all his life, in his efforts through austerity and abstinence to attain higher wisdom also gains salvation.

Now I ask what would we call the 'All-powerful' God of the Torah, Bible, Qur'an, Puranas, Zend Avesta, Guru Grantha, and all that other false dogmas that can do anything, who gives the same reward of heaven to both a fool and a wise man? To an intelligent soul, he is not only mortal like the Ball-club owner but even more foolish. In reality, a fool who follows a false dogma is only fooling him/herself. 
                                                                 
                         Redemption can only be a fool's passport to a fool's paradise.

                                                      In search of the One True Religion


                                        "No one is more hated than he who speaks the truth." Plato

WARNING! Reader's discretion is advised - the truth offends!
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Debunking false dogmas.
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Re: Have these gullible fools no critical faculties at all?

Not really, its pretty obvious that he rejected the notion of a personal god, pretty early in life, and clung to a deist notion, mostly as PR for science, until his last years, where he became increasingly disparaging of notions of 'god'.

Re: Have these gullible fools no critical faculties at all?

Derek
Not really, its pretty obvious that he rejected the notion of a personal god, pretty early in life, and clung to a deist notion, mostly as PR for science, until his last years, where he became increasingly disparaging of notions of 'god'.
I'm among the "select few" so I know where he stood and it wasn't "disparaging".

"Philosophy and reason will remain the most beautiful sanctuary they have always been for the select few." Einstein

Re: Have these gullible fools no critical faculties at all?

If not recorded that he said or wrote, annecdote, not interested.
His recorded words show him increasingly disparage the notion of a god. A year before he died describing it as 'childish'.
Its worth noting that when Einstein said 'atheist', today we would say anti-theist.

Re: Have these gullible fools no critical faculties at all?

If not recorded that he said or wrote, annecdote, not interested.
Vj ~ As if you understand the laws of nature as he did?

"We see the universe marvelously arranged and obeying certain laws but only dimly understand these laws." Einstein

Re: Have these gullible fools no critical faculties at all?

And I have zero issue with Einstein's awe at the cosmos... I share it.

Not sure that takes us forward, because I can't see a logical association between that 'awe' and a 'god'.

Re: Have these gullible fools no critical faculties at all?

God and nature go hand in hand. Only when you understand the laws of nature you can understand God.

Re: Have these gullible fools no critical faculties at all?

I also know a very nice guy who believes he's the second coming. He also believes atoms are made of spaceships. Let me introduce
@harriechristusto you.
I think you'll get along perfectly.

Re: Have these gullible fools no critical faculties at all?

I'm trying to introduce you to a guy who has no ape ancestors. Isn't that intriguing enough for you to check him out.

Re: Have these gullible fools no critical faculties at all?

Why would something so antithetical to reality hold any interest?

Here is a guy with both ape ancestors and...ta dah! Ape creations... specifically the librarian. Though of course he was a human first, but got turned into an Oranutan in by magic, accident.

Re: Have these gullible fools no critical faculties at all?

I don't give a ****!

It's your theory deal with it.

Evolution is silly!

Re: Have these gullible fools no critical faculties at all?

You do know the difference between just a theory and a scientific theory?

Re: Have these gullible fools no critical faculties at all?

All I've to know is that they both have to conform to the immutable laws of nature.

Re: Have these gullible fools no critical faculties at all?

But you don't know what the laws of nature are. And cannot logically know what they are.

Logic can't give you certainty. Newtons model 'laws of nature' can be refuted by a single contrary result.

Why would they be immutable? Most would be set different by symmetry breaking.

Re: Have these gullible fools no critical faculties at all?

But you don't know what the laws of nature are. And cannot logically know what they are
Vj ~ Speaking of yourself, of course!

Einstein knew: "We see the universe marvelously arranged and obeying certain laws but only dimly understand these laws."


Logic can't give you certainty.
Vj ~ But logic guided by the correct knowledge can.

Why would they be immutable?
Vj ~ If the laws weren't immutable you could be excreting through your mouth.

Re: Have these gullible fools no critical faculties at all?

Not logically.

Symmetry breaking is quite fascinating, laws and consants set as the singularity inflates. No reason they couldn't take a whole host of values.

Does that mean they might change now? Improbable.

I don't think myself as omniscient, to 'know' they are immutable.

Re: Have these gullible fools no critical faculties at all?

I don't think myself as omniscient, to 'know' they are immutable.
Vj ~ I do.

Re: Have these gullible fools no critical faculties at all?

Vijai Singh
I don't think myself as omniscient, to 'know' they are immutable.
Vj ~ I do.
Then tell me what trait I share with my Great Great Grandmother.

Re: Have these gullible fools no critical faculties at all?

Derek
Vijai Singh
I don\'t think myself as omniscient, to \'know\' they are immutable.
Vj ~ I do.
Then tell me what trait I share with my Great Great Grandmother.
Ignorant of the truth of natural laws.

Re: Have these gullible fools no critical faculties at all?

So since your not omniscient... how would you know truth when you see it?

Re: Have these gullible fools no critical faculties at all?

Derek
So since your not omniscient... how would you know truth when you see it?
Truth is one and the same for all, even the blind.

Re: Have these gullible fools no critical faculties at all?

Is it? Not much evidence that follows. And what do you mean 'even the blind' is it supposed to be more difficult for them for some reason?

Absolute truth... is unattainable, logically impossible.

Ego much.

Re: Have these gullible fools no critical faculties at all?

In studying the systems of philosophy the mind adopt a discipline of impartiality and sobriety. Then raised to an exalted mental condition through ... reasoning. This intellectual function is required for the comprehension of recondite and invisible truths of matter and nature.

Re: Have these gullible fools no critical faculties at all?

Ah... put yourself into a suggestible trance and let apophenia do the rest.

Re: Have these gullible fools no critical faculties at all?

Derek
Ah... put yourself into a suggestible trance and let apophenia do the rest.
It's called contemplation.

Nothing to see, the eyes are closed and the intellect goes to work.

Reasoning guided by the correct knowledge.

Re: Have these gullible fools no critical faculties at all?

Does it? How would you know?
"Often a result of lack of wisdom." Terry Pratchett

Re: Have these gullible fools no critical faculties at all?

The question is, how would you know, I know?

"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt." Bertrand Russell

Re: Have these gullible fools no critical faculties at all?

That would be down to agreeing the definition of terms and engaging in discourse.

Your Russell quote is utterly irellevant.

Re: Have these gullible fools no critical faculties at all?

No seriously, how would you know who is wise or enlightened?

And what else can you be, besides being stupid or intelligent?

Re: Have these gullible fools no critical faculties at all?

'Enlighten me', is a common English sentence, which means something like: 'Share your explanatory thoughts'. Enlighten was a figure of speech.. I didn't mean enlightenment in the Buddhist way.

Re: Have these gullible fools no critical faculties at all?

You're speaking of your world of curiosity and doubt and not mine (Vedic), where even the Buddhist way isn't enlightenment.

Re: Have these gullible fools no critical faculties at all?

See, this is what I mean. Perfectly fine you think you 'know' it all, but let science out of it.
I don't mind you thinking you have no doubts. But just do not misuse science as a word. You really believe you really know nature's intrinsics and that's all there is to it.

Re: Have these gullible fools no critical faculties at all?

How can I let science out of it?
We agree the sun isn't moving and earth isn't flat.
The universe is only 2 billions years old and not 13 billion.
We say matter always exist. Science no

"Science without religion is lame and religion without science is blind." Albert Einstein

Re: Have these gullible fools no critical faculties at all?

By stating natural laws govern the world is a problem in itself.
Natural law is a human invention in a way. By observing and following natures cause and effect, humans have the tendency to believe what feels right. I have a feeling( :) ) this also applies to you.

Re: Have these gullible fools no critical faculties at all?

Well, isn't that the motto of the physical evolution theory, everything is human invention?

Sure, it's all cause and effect but what do you know of the first cause?

What I know came from revealed knowledge which means man had to be taught, even the very first ones.

Re: Have these gullible fools no critical faculties at all?

Well no... everything used to describe observation is human invention, 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999% of what is observed has nothing to do with human invention.

Why would there be a 'first' cause?

Apes teach their young.

Re: Have these gullible fools no critical faculties at all?

This is rather a foolish statement. Teach the young to use the toilet and wipe the ass?

Animals survived by instinct which neither increase nor decrease. You can't teach instinct, it is natural.

Re: Have these gullible fools no critical faculties at all?

No. To care for each other, share, watch each others backs... Apes have an active social life... Ask Jane Goodall.

Instinct changes in each generation. You imply instinct is bad... why?

How about an instinct to learn, and an instinct to teach... pretty well evidenced in apes.

Re: Have these gullible fools no critical faculties at all?

Don't you get it? Humans need to do that, because they cannot rely on instinct, not animals.

It's bad when people like you think it is the cause of progress.

Instinct to learn and teach what, alphabet and how to count?

Re: Have these gullible fools no critical faculties at all?

Humans can rely on their instincts, and usually have better life chances when they do.

Bad? In what way? How is providing good parenting for infants 'bad'?

Why would the particular symbols used have any significance? Beyond being shared with other minds.

Re: Have these gullible fools no critical faculties at all?

"The knowledge given by another cannot be called instinctive. What is instinctive is natural, it can neither increase nor decrease nor can it help any one to make any progress, since the savages also possess this instinctive knowledge and yet they have not made any progress. The acquired knowledge alone is the cause of progress. All of us during our childhood did not possess accurate knowledge of right and wrong, virtue and vice, but after having studied under our learned teachers, we were enabled to distinguish between right and wrong, virtue and vice. Hence it is wrong to hold that instinctive knowledge is all-sufficient." Swami Dayanand