Third Missouri State Militia Cavalry used Wesson rifles--see Peterson and Hanson in "Pilot Knob: Thermopylae of the West."

Your statement speculating the Missourians with Wesson's switching sides seems to be a little bit presumptuous; it focuses on the wrong troops and confuses apples with oranges.

The "active recruiting" you speak of amongst Missouri Federal troops was in regard to the Enrolled Missouri Militia, a conscripted part-time home-guard civilian reserve force that naturally contained many troops with Southern sympathies (ex. Paw Paw Militia). Their switching sides was as much concerned with recruiting as it was with opportunity--Marmadukes raid, Shelbys raids, Prices Raid, etc. Come on over and bring your Austrian rifles....

The Enrolled Militia, being civilian home guards, were poorly armed and were either self-supplied with squirrel rifles and what-not, or were supplied by the U.S. govt. bottom of the barrel ordnance.

Contrast to the Missouri State Militia, which was a full-time three year volunteer force that was heavily recruited into the U.S. Veteran units in 1864. Their service was such that they were singled out for Federal pensions after the war (to the exception of virtually all other Northern militia units) and were generally perceived by the senior command as having been on par with mainline U.S. Volunteer units during the war. Dispute it if you will, but supply documention please. Some scattered State Militia individuals undoubtedly switched to the Confederate side, as did some Confederates to the Union side, but such was the exception in regard to the Missouri State Militia.

I really doubt you would be able to document any discernable movement of troops with Wessons from Federal to Confederate--they just weren't given to the category of units that might tend toward that type of inclination.

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Replying to:

Looking to identify units, and individual soldiers, that used the Wesson carbine/rifle. Most of these units (maybe all but one), were stationed in the Trans-Miss. theatre.



So far, I have identified one Kansas unit, a couple of Missouri units, and three Ohio units. Plus, I have identified a number of individuals and Army contract work teams that were issued Wessons.



All of the above were Union units. However, I suspect that they were also used by Confederates, especially Partisan Ranger units. In addition, some may have been brought into Confederate units by Missouri Union state troops, as these men were actively recruited to switch sides. Some undoubtedly brought their Wessons with them to the Confederate side.



I would also be interested in information on pre-war and war time civilian use.



Any information would be appreciated. You may reply here or email me direct. Thanks!

I appreciate your information and input. You may be correct that I am off base with that presumption (and that is all that it is) that some Missouri militia men who switched to the Confederate side brought with them Wesson rifles. I am not a student of the Missouri units or the war in the Trans-Mississippi.



I'll go back to the source (if I can find it) and post what it says. As I recall it simply says "Missouri militia" were recruited to switch sides, not making a differentiation between the 1st Home Guard, 2nd Home Guard, EMM, the Provisional EMM, the 3 Months State Militia or the 6 Month State militia. I doubt that the recruiting Confederates would have, either. The PEMM was not poorly equipped, as much of the EMM may have been. I belive that Ingethron's "Borderland Rebellion" is where I read of the recruiting efforts, but I'm not sure. I'll have to look through my source books. Maybe is was in Connelley's book "Quantrill and the Border Wars".



As far as I have found, so far, the only company of the 3rd Missouri State Militia armed with the Wesson was Capt. Hunter's Company. I don't have access to the book you mention. Does it reference more than that comany being equipped with the Wesson?

--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---

Replying to:

Third Missouri State Militia Cavalry used Wesson rifles--see Peterson and Hanson in "Pilot Knob: Thermopylae of the West."

Your statement speculating the Missourians with Wesson's switching sides seems to be a little bit presumptuous; it focuses on the wrong troops and confuses apples with oranges.

The "active recruiting" you speak of amongst Missouri Federal troops was in regard to the Enrolled Missouri Militia, a conscripted part-time home-guard civilian reserve force that naturally contained many troops with Southern sympathies (ex. Paw Paw Militia). Their switching sides was as much concerned with recruiting as it was with opportunity--Marmadukes raid, Shelbys raids, Prices Raid, etc. Come on over and bring your Austrian rifles....

The Enrolled Militia, being civilian home guards, were poorly armed and were either self-supplied with squirrel rifles and what-not, or were supplied by the U.S. govt. bottom of the barrel ordnance.

Contrast to the Missouri State Militia, which was a full-time three year volunteer force that was heavily recruited into the U.S. Veteran units in 1864. Their service was such that they were singled out for Federal pensions after the war (to the exception of virtually all other Northern militia units) and were generally perceived by the senior command as having been on par with mainline U.S. Volunteer units during the war. Dispute it if you will, but supply documention please. Some scattered State Militia individuals undoubtedly switched to the Confederate side, as did some Confederates to the Union side, but such was the exception in regard to the Missouri State Militia.

I really doubt you would be able to document any discernable movement of troops with Wessons from Federal to Confederate--they just weren't given to the category of units that might tend toward that type of inclination.

--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---

Replying to:

Looking to identify units, and individual soldiers, that used the Wesson carbine/rifle. Most of these units (maybe all but one), were stationed in the Trans-Miss. theatre.



So far, I have identified one Kansas unit, a couple of Missouri units, and three Ohio units. Plus, I have identified a number of individuals and Army contract work teams that were issued Wessons.



All of the above were Union units. However, I suspect that they were also used by Confederates, especially Partisan Ranger units. In addition, some may have been brought into Confederate units by Missouri Union state troops, as these men were actively recruited to switch sides. Some undoubtedly brought their Wessons with them to the Confederate side.



I would also be interested in information on pre-war and war time civilian use.



Any information would be appreciated. You may reply here or email me direct. Thanks!

You are no doubt correct regarding the PEMM being better equipped than the EMM. Note that the PEMM was a full-time organization consisting of picked men, unlike the EMM. The PEMM was more commonly called the Detailed Militia, receiving that moniker from the fact its troops were detailed from the EMM. The choice of men detailed was not random, with the most loyal and effective men being sent to the PEMM. As such, as a general rule it would not seem they would be likely to have been inclined to defect. There were eight regiments in the PEMM, and in dealing with that number of men some undoubtedly would have went over to the Confederacy.

Regarding the units in Missouri, T.J. Stiles gives a pretty clear analysis of the differences between various Missouri units in his book on Jesse James. Some don't like the slant of his book, but it is hard to argue with his presentation on the differences between the militia units.

In the 2000 reprint of the Pilot Knob book, at p. 60, Peterson and Hanson quote Sgt. James Steakley, Co. K 3rd M.S.M., as follows: "We halted and he came up, very slowly and watchfully, until within a hundred yards of us when I recognized him as John Davis, Co. D, whose horse had been killed by the enemy's first shot.... Comrade Davis had walked and charged right beside me in the fight the day before, loading and firing his Wesson rifle." This reference certainly is not dispositive of the issue that the whole of Company D 3rd M.S.M. was supplied with Wessons, but is evidence that at least one of them was.

--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---

Replying to:

I appreciate your information and input. You may be correct that I am off base with that presumption (and that is all that it is) that some Missouri militia men who switched to the Confederate side brought with them Wesson rifles. I am not a student of the Missouri units or the war in the Trans-Mississippi.



I'll go back to the source (if I can find it) and post what it says. As I recall it simply says "Missouri militia" were recruited to switch sides, not making a differentiation between the 1st Home Guard, 2nd Home Guard, EMM, the Provisional EMM, the 3 Months State Militia or the 6 Month State militia. I doubt that the recruiting Confederates would have, either. The PEMM was not poorly equipped, as much of the EMM may have been. I belive that Ingethron's "Borderland Rebellion" is where I read of the recruiting efforts, but I'm not sure. I'll have to look through my source books. Maybe is was in Connelley's book "Quantrill and the Border Wars".



As far as I have found, so far, the only company of the 3rd Missouri State Militia armed with the Wesson was Capt. Hunter's Company. I don't have access to the book you mention. Does it reference more than that comany being equipped with the Wesson?

--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---

Replying to:

Third Missouri State Militia Cavalry used Wesson rifles--see Peterson and Hanson in "Pilot Knob: Thermopylae of the West."

Your statement speculating the Missourians with Wesson's switching sides seems to be a little bit presumptuous; it focuses on the wrong troops and confuses apples with oranges.

The "active recruiting" you speak of amongst Missouri Federal troops was in regard to the Enrolled Missouri Militia, a conscripted part-time home-guard civilian reserve force that naturally contained many troops with Southern sympathies (ex. Paw Paw Militia). Their switching sides was as much concerned with recruiting as it was with opportunity--Marmadukes raid, Shelbys raids, Prices Raid, etc. Come on over and bring your Austrian rifles....

The Enrolled Militia, being civilian home guards, were poorly armed and were either self-supplied with squirrel rifles and what-not, or were supplied by the U.S. govt. bottom of the barrel ordnance.

Contrast to the Missouri State Militia, which was a full-time three year volunteer force that was heavily recruited into the U.S. Veteran units in 1864. Their service was such that they were singled out for Federal pensions after the war (to the exception of virtually all other Northern militia units) and were generally perceived by the senior command as having been on par with mainline U.S. Volunteer units during the war. Dispute it if you will, but supply documention please. Some scattered State Militia individuals undoubtedly switched to the Confederate side, as did some Confederates to the Union side, but such was the exception in regard to the Missouri State Militia.

I really doubt you would be able to document any discernable movement of troops with Wessons from Federal to Confederate--they just weren't given to the category of units that might tend toward that type of inclination.

--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---

Replying to:

Looking to identify units, and individual soldiers, that used the Wesson carbine/rifle. Most of these units (maybe all but one), were stationed in the Trans-Miss. theatre.



So far, I have identified one Kansas unit, a couple of Missouri units, and three Ohio units. Plus, I have identified a number of individuals and Army contract work teams that were issued Wessons.



All of the above were Union units. However, I suspect that they were also used by Confederates, especially Partisan Ranger units. In addition, some may have been brought into Confederate units by Missouri Union state troops, as these men were actively recruited to switch sides. Some undoubtedly brought their Wessons with them to the Confederate side.



I would also be interested in information on pre-war and war time civilian use.



Any information would be appreciated. You may reply here or email me direct. Thanks!

Thanks once again for the information and input. This does raise another question for me: Who captained Company D?

--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---

Replying to:

You are no doubt correct regarding the PEMM being better equipped than the EMM. Note that the PEMM was a full-time organization consisting of picked men, unlike the EMM. The PEMM was more commonly called the Detailed Militia, receiving that moniker from the fact its troops were detailed from the EMM. The choice of men detailed was not random, with the most loyal and effective men being sent to the PEMM. As such, as a general rule it would not seem they would be likely to have been inclined to defect. There were eight regiments in the PEMM, and in dealing with that number of men some undoubtedly would have went over to the Confederacy.

Regarding the units in Missouri, T.J. Stiles gives a pretty clear analysis of the differences between various Missouri units in his book on Jesse James. Some don't like the slant of his book, but it is hard to argue with his presentation on the differences between the militia units.

In the 2000 reprint of the Pilot Knob book, at p. 60, Peterson and Hanson quote Sgt. James Steakley, Co. K 3rd M.S.M., as follows: "We halted and he came up, very slowly and watchfully, until within a hundred yards of us when I recognized him as John Davis, Co. D, whose horse had been killed by the enemy's first shot.... Comrade Davis had walked and charged right beside me in the fight the day before, loading and firing his Wesson rifle." This reference certainly is not dispositive of the issue that the whole of Company D 3rd M.S.M. was supplied with Wessons, but is evidence that at least one of them was.

--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---

Replying to:

I appreciate your information and input. You may be correct that I am off base with that presumption (and that is all that it is) that some Missouri militia men who switched to the Confederate side brought with them Wesson rifles. I am not a student of the Missouri units or the war in the Trans-Mississippi.



I'll go back to the source (if I can find it) and post what it says. As I recall it simply says "Missouri militia" were recruited to switch sides, not making a differentiation between the 1st Home Guard, 2nd Home Guard, EMM, the Provisional EMM, the 3 Months State Militia or the 6 Month State militia. I doubt that the recruiting Confederates would have, either. The PEMM was not poorly equipped, as much of the EMM may have been. I belive that Ingethron's "Borderland Rebellion" is where I read of the recruiting efforts, but I'm not sure. I'll have to look through my source books. Maybe is was in Connelley's book "Quantrill and the Border Wars".



As far as I have found, so far, the only company of the 3rd Missouri State Militia armed with the Wesson was Capt. Hunter's Company. I don't have access to the book you mention. Does it reference more than that comany being equipped with the Wesson?

--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---

Replying to:

Third Missouri State Militia Cavalry used Wesson rifles--see Peterson and Hanson in "Pilot Knob: Thermopylae of the West."

Your statement speculating the Missourians with Wesson's switching sides seems to be a little bit presumptuous; it focuses on the wrong troops and confuses apples with oranges.

The "active recruiting" you speak of amongst Missouri Federal troops was in regard to the Enrolled Missouri Militia, a conscripted part-time home-guard civilian reserve force that naturally contained many troops with Southern sympathies (ex. Paw Paw Militia). Their switching sides was as much concerned with recruiting as it was with opportunity--Marmadukes raid, Shelbys raids, Prices Raid, etc. Come on over and bring your Austrian rifles....

The Enrolled Militia, being civilian home guards, were poorly armed and were either self-supplied with squirrel rifles and what-not, or were supplied by the U.S. govt. bottom of the barrel ordnance.

Contrast to the Missouri State Militia, which was a full-time three year volunteer force that was heavily recruited into the U.S. Veteran units in 1864. Their service was such that they were singled out for Federal pensions after the war (to the exception of virtually all other Northern militia units) and were generally perceived by the senior command as having been on par with mainline U.S. Volunteer units during the war. Dispute it if you will, but supply documention please. Some scattered State Militia individuals undoubtedly switched to the Confederate side, as did some Confederates to the Union side, but such was the exception in regard to the Missouri State Militia.

I really doubt you would be able to document any discernable movement of troops with Wessons from Federal to Confederate--they just weren't given to the category of units that might tend toward that type of inclination.

--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---

Replying to:

Looking to identify units, and individual soldiers, that used the Wesson carbine/rifle. Most of these units (maybe all but one), were stationed in the Trans-Miss. theatre.



So far, I have identified one Kansas unit, a couple of Missouri units, and three Ohio units. Plus, I have identified a number of individuals and Army contract work teams that were issued Wessons.



All of the above were Union units. However, I suspect that they were also used by Confederates, especially Partisan Ranger units. In addition, some may have been brought into Confederate units by Missouri Union state troops, as these men were actively recruited to switch sides. Some undoubtedly brought their Wessons with them to the Confederate side.



I would also be interested in information on pre-war and war time civilian use.



Any information would be appreciated. You may reply here or email me direct. Thanks!

Looks like Robert McElroy led the company through its entire existance.

--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---

Replying to:

Thanks once again for the information and input. This does raise another question for me: Who captained Company D?

--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---

Replying to:

You are no doubt correct regarding the PEMM being better equipped than the EMM. Note that the PEMM was a full-time organization consisting of picked men, unlike the EMM. The PEMM was more commonly called the Detailed Militia, receiving that moniker from the fact its troops were detailed from the EMM. The choice of men detailed was not random, with the most loyal and effective men being sent to the PEMM. As such, as a general rule it would not seem they would be likely to have been inclined to defect. There were eight regiments in the PEMM, and in dealing with that number of men some undoubtedly would have went over to the Confederacy.

Regarding the units in Missouri, T.J. Stiles gives a pretty clear analysis of the differences between various Missouri units in his book on Jesse James. Some don't like the slant of his book, but it is hard to argue with his presentation on the differences between the militia units.

In the 2000 reprint of the Pilot Knob book, at p. 60, Peterson and Hanson quote Sgt. James Steakley, Co. K 3rd M.S.M., as follows: "We halted and he came up, very slowly and watchfully, until within a hundred yards of us when I recognized him as John Davis, Co. D, whose horse had been killed by the enemy's first shot.... Comrade Davis had walked and charged right beside me in the fight the day before, loading and firing his Wesson rifle." This reference certainly is not dispositive of the issue that the whole of Company D 3rd M.S.M. was supplied with Wessons, but is evidence that at least one of them was.

--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---

Replying to:

I appreciate your information and input. You may be correct that I am off base with that presumption (and that is all that it is) that some Missouri militia men who switched to the Confederate side brought with them Wesson rifles. I am not a student of the Missouri units or the war in the Trans-Mississippi.



I'll go back to the source (if I can find it) and post what it says. As I recall it simply says "Missouri militia" were recruited to switch sides, not making a differentiation between the 1st Home Guard, 2nd Home Guard, EMM, the Provisional EMM, the 3 Months State Militia or the 6 Month State militia. I doubt that the recruiting Confederates would have, either. The PEMM was not poorly equipped, as much of the EMM may have been. I belive that Ingethron's "Borderland Rebellion" is where I read of the recruiting efforts, but I'm not sure. I'll have to look through my source books. Maybe is was in Connelley's book "Quantrill and the Border Wars".



As far as I have found, so far, the only company of the 3rd Missouri State Militia armed with the Wesson was Capt. Hunter's Company. I don't have access to the book you mention. Does it reference more than that comany being equipped with the Wesson?

--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---

Replying to:

Third Missouri State Militia Cavalry used Wesson rifles--see Peterson and Hanson in "Pilot Knob: Thermopylae of the West."

Your statement speculating the Missourians with Wesson's switching sides seems to be a little bit presumptuous; it focuses on the wrong troops and confuses apples with oranges.

The "active recruiting" you speak of amongst Missouri Federal troops was in regard to the Enrolled Missouri Militia, a conscripted part-time home-guard civilian reserve force that naturally contained many troops with Southern sympathies (ex. Paw Paw Militia). Their switching sides was as much concerned with recruiting as it was with opportunity--Marmadukes raid, Shelbys raids, Prices Raid, etc. Come on over and bring your Austrian rifles....

The Enrolled Militia, being civilian home guards, were poorly armed and were either self-supplied with squirrel rifles and what-not, or were supplied by the U.S. govt. bottom of the barrel ordnance.

Contrast to the Missouri State Militia, which was a full-time three year volunteer force that was heavily recruited into the U.S. Veteran units in 1864. Their service was such that they were singled out for Federal pensions after the war (to the exception of virtually all other Northern militia units) and were generally perceived by the senior command as having been on par with mainline U.S. Volunteer units during the war. Dispute it if you will, but supply documention please. Some scattered State Militia individuals undoubtedly switched to the Confederate side, as did some Confederates to the Union side, but such was the exception in regard to the Missouri State Militia.

I really doubt you would be able to document any discernable movement of troops with Wessons from Federal to Confederate--they just weren't given to the category of units that might tend toward that type of inclination.

--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---

Replying to:

Looking to identify units, and individual soldiers, that used the Wesson carbine/rifle. Most of these units (maybe all but one), were stationed in the Trans-Miss. theatre.



So far, I have identified one Kansas unit, a couple of Missouri units, and three Ohio units. Plus, I have identified a number of individuals and Army contract work teams that were issued Wessons.



All of the above were Union units. However, I suspect that they were also used by Confederates, especially Partisan Ranger units. In addition, some may have been brought into Confederate units by Missouri Union state troops, as these men were actively recruited to switch sides. Some undoubtedly brought their Wessons with them to the Confederate side.



I would also be interested in information on pre-war and war time civilian use.



Any information would be appreciated. You may reply here or email me direct. Thanks!